Gyűjtögetés

So... Let's start this off by explaining scavenging by using a 100 Spear example from my beta account to test the new feature: (Take into account this was done on a speed 2 beta world, so the numbers will be halved on a speed 1) [​IMG] https://gyazo.com/dfff270f37767558c962f9b975302afc

As you can see here, scavenging is scalable depending on the features you've unlocked.

The first grants 10% of maximum haulable income The second grants 25% of maximum haulable income The third grants 50% of maximum haulable income The fourth grants 75% of maximum haulable income.

Here's an example with 200 spears:

[​IMG] https://gyazo.com/284503ef14b6d3164fb987c1acb59003

As you can see here, the resource values remain constant with regard to %, but scale (Not linear) with regard to time.

Here's an example of light cavalry looting 5,040 resources (Same as image #2 in terms of loot) [​IMG] https://gyazo.com/b7c98d2472171d8f8054fe52da86cd50

This means that speed of troop has absolutely no effect here, deeming the best cost per loot haul troops the most valuable (Spear fighter)

Let's sidetrack a little bit here:

What does early game require most from the individual? In specific order 1: Activity 2: Premium 3: Farming

The most common issue with farming is the dreaded 1/80 microfarm loots or even for noobs sending 20sp/sw to get maybe 15/800 resources at the start of the world.

Now, it seems that innogames has taken it upon themselves to add an extra 'farming feature' (Sadly it doesn't count toward plunders/total looted)

What I'm here to show you that scavenging will either need to be nerfed due to the current state of the game, or people like me or other 'veterans' will take advantage of this and have enough res/troops to decimate every noob before as soon as they exit their generously granted 5 day beginner protection.

Let's explain how early game works again - My early game guide was removed by innogames several months ago

The world starts by offering 25,000 Wood/Clay/Iron in the Premium Exchange in EACH continent

-Any decent player with a fair amount of luck with have easily bought 5,000 of each resource in their continent before the resources have run out. -Instead of rushing the typical lc rush, the meta will be changed towards upgrading your scavenging abilities (I honestly believe sp/lc mix will be best way) and you will easily be able to upgrade to level 3 scavenging by day 1.

-By day 1, if you're a significant premium user (2000+ premium available for use) you'll EASILY have the resources to build the maximum of about 150 spears (depending on barracks level) on day 1, in addition to researching your lc, increasing your pits, blah blah blah.

So... what can we see on a level 3 scavenging with 150 spearmen? [​IMG] https://gyazo.com/d27207611f216604056c10e5e2387561 On a speed 1 world, this should take about 3:20:34 so you will receive 8 of these runs per day, with no fear of spikes, minimal hauls, or literally any statistical discrepancy. If you budget only 75 spears while farming with 75, you'll see your run time distances actually go down significantly, allowing you to do 12 runs in a day.

[​IMG] https://gyazo.com/2dc4dbea2860d0fbf0037fbf570bafe5

The big thing though, is to statistically budget your level 2,3,4 (Level 1 isn't work it) scavenging abilities to minimize resource income.

Here's a 24 hour excel sheet example (Done for speed 2) with 150 spear men: [​IMG] https://gyazo.com/c9506086d972dde73bba2eb4fee63be4

Took some time, but it's worth it to show you the results of mixing up your runs by not solely focusing on putting everything into the possible theoretical scavenging run.

On a speed 2 world, you can actually easily have 300 spearmen by the end of day one if you have that level 5+ barracks, but for the sake of everything, we'll pretend it's speed one and divide these results by 2.

By following this method, you'll have looted a guaranteed 18k+ (assumption of maximum efficiency), and this is not counting what you'd have looted via LC from normal farming, or with your spears/swordsmen from farming the filled 500/500/400 new villages before you had upgraded your scavenging to level 3.

Part 2:

Scavenging Level 4 (costs 10,000/12,000/10,000) & Scavenging Scaling:

At around possibly 600 spears, I'd say you can probably routinely/daily unlock the ability to get scavenging level 4, so I'll use the example of 600 spears here.

[​IMG] https://gyazo.com/fc1d0f384e08c7c0810c727b73c62b23

Here's what you'd see.

Recall: At 150 spears the times for 2,3,4 were: 1:03:15 1:40:17 2:15:26

[​IMG] https://gyazo.com/b8f62dc64ca87abeb33f4f0a29ac8fd3

What you can see here is the problem with diminishing returns. Although you have an investment of 4x 600 spears, you see a return not even 2x that total amount.

What you want to do in this case is to diversify the portfolio by equally allocating your troops to a ratio system by putting equally distributed amounts in each level rather than putting them all in 1 basket.

Here's what happens when you put 200 in each: [​IMG] https://i.gyazo.com/bc14e6722598b4494703f05ebf90fd8b.png [​IMG] https://gyazo.com/9c3c52eb187c8e86d641f6ca10e82f6c

That would be about 85K looted per day with just 600 spears on a 2 speed world, or roughly about 42.2k looted per day on a speed 1, probably day 3 of a speed 1 if you push 24.7 spears + premium + level 7 or so barracks.

This would take literally 0 of your LC, contribute nothing to your looted per day total, and would be a great wood sink when you're 24/7 producing lc.

To average a statistical distribution of 42.2k resources per day (14k each res), you'd need resource pits of level 21 EACH (616*24=14784). The cost-benefit ratio of building these spears makes building resource pits insignificant early game, unless you have resources to spare with both lc and spears running 24/7.

As you go up the curve, you'll see much more diminishing gains, here's an example of 1800 spears just to make an example.

[​IMG] https://gyazo.com/3f5387a3ede5a4efb17ec623979f2629

[​IMG] https://gyazo.com/01043c4ff9940938577d435d9edf2c77

New Player Benefit:

New players can also benefit quite well from the scavenging event. Since the scalable rewards continue to scale very well up until around 100 spearmen, this can push new players to building more defensive units without any worry for losing troops attacking players or spiked barbs. This may create more hugging/less fighting, but can be a way to nurture new players and cause an opportunity cost for the vets.

What's the opportunity cost here you may ask?

The opportunity cost lies upon the predator who may be attacking the new player. The attacker may ask him/herself... Do I want to attack this guy, lose some troops and possibly get a daily reward of ~800 of each resource per day, or would I RATHER invest my time, resources, troops, efficiency into focusing my spears or axes - (Even though they loot 10 per attack, only Total AMT looted has an effect on scavenging times).

This will give noobs a longer time to play, maybe a full 10 days instead of 5 days, before they receive scouting attacks, or incoming to attack their precious loot. This will allow noobs to build troops and have more defenses to protect themselves before attackers make their approach

My opinion: Yes this helps noobs, but it will comparatively help very active players who know how to manage scavenging in a much greater fashion.

Cost-Benefit Analysis:

What does a spearman cost: 50/30/10 --> 90 resources

What does a spearman loot: 25 resources A spearman loots 3.6 of its cost, making it the best cost-benefit asset of any unit in tribalwars.

When it comes to early game, efficiency, cost-benefit focus, and farming are unrivaled by anything else in TW besides the use of premium points.

For this, we'll use an example of 50 spears as that's a modest goal everyone hopes to attain in the first day of a world.

Around this time, you'll probably have around level 2 scavenging as level 3 may be a little pricey (I think it's like 1k each resource) and the scaling at this level isn't too significant to warrant huge problems.

[​IMG] https://gyazo.com/a5d6020556085cc5d26a82a7dfa9739f.png

Here, a spearman can loot 25% of it's full loot potential, and brings a return of 313 resources every 36:24. This produces a value of 3.5 spearmen, and a total of 12.4k resources per day. These 50 spearmen alone (On a speed 2 world) would bring you a return of 137.6 spearmen in ONE DAY ALONE [​IMG] https://gyazo.com/1c1ae894fed90e583701ca9c972ef96a

These benefits are way too good for their input and I personally believe that something should be done to lower the advantages brought to the game.

I came in writing this to explain how OP scavenging is and how much it will help veterans but I've developed somewhat of a newer idea on the subject.

Reflection: This new ingame feature does the following:

1: Allows premium users to insanely grow the first few days, gain a significant advantage, but then drops off that advantage by lowering the scaling for those who went all-in and sort of slowly evens out the playing field

2: It allows players to develop a great spear system by pushing players to accumulate 200,300,400,500 spears, but then also leads them to invest the resources into other things like light cavalry/pits because the scaling gains slowly but surely decrease as you add more troops to each attack

3: Will shift the focus on early-game farming to the use of scavenging, which hopefully deters players from attacking noobs and brings more people to the game because they'll get to learn and enjoy more before being slaughtered like a Thanksgiving turkey.

4: The cost-benefit with a 0% Risk-index is too advantageous in a strategy game like Tribalwars. The numbers need to be adjusted and accounted for.

5: This new ingame interaction will be very fun on the first few weeks that it's released in the world. It will be replaced by farming after players pass about 1/2 of their max farm space, but it will always be wise to continuously use about 200 spears on each scavenging option to gain loot which rivals that of farming gains.

6: The scavenging option may provide an interesting take on No-Haul/Limited haul worlds if introduced, as it will deem players un-lootable but will also add an edge to the really stupid early game tactic of maximizing resource pits with putting no resources into troops.

[spoiler=formula]Code: 1: (((0.1 * capacity) ^ 2 * 100) ^ 0.45 + 1800) * 0.6830201284 2: (((0.25 * capacity) ^ 2 * 100) ^ 0.45 + 1800) * 0.6830201284 3: (((0.5 * capacity) ^ 2 * 100) ^ 0.45 + 1800) * 0.6830201284 4: (((0.75 * capacity) ^ 2 * 100) ^ 0.45 + 1800) * 0.6830201284 General pattern is: Code: (((loot_factor * capacity) ^ 2 * 100) ^ duration_exponent + duration_initial_seconds) * duration_factor In case the constants vary, the factors can be found on your page by viewing source and finding "ScavengeScreen" and then reading the JS object there. https://jsonformatter.curiousconcept.com/ may help for making it more readable.

Time formula for uk35 at least, some of the constants could vary across worlds I guess. It's easy enough to find the formula in the JS source of the page too if you really want.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Plus]Hello,

I've just started this world, mainly to mess around and perhaps generate some premium points in the process. I've noticed that there is this new mechanic called scavenging and have become a bit curious of how it works. Where am I supposed to put my troops? How does it compare to farming? Can I snipe using this? I just wanted to start a bit of a discussion about scavenging and how good it actually is.

The Basics

The first thing to know about scavenging is that there are four options, each with a different yield. You have Lackadaisical Looters which yields 10% of a full haul, Humble Haulers that yields 25%, Clever Collectors at 50% and Great Gatherers at 75%. I'm going to be calling these LL, HH, CC and GG respectively from now on. It seems simple just to pop your resources into GG every time as it gives you the most bang for your buck, but this is actually a trap, each option is roughly equal in terms of value.

Lets say we wanted to get 750 resources from each option, we'd have to send the following raid parties:

LL: 7500 Haul or 300 Spearmen HH: 3000 Haul or 120 Spearmen CC: 1500 Haul or 60 Spearmen GG: 1000 Haul or 40 Spearmen

It's important to note two things. Firstly, it doesn't matter what speed the troop you use for scavenging. Scavenging time is based on how much you loot and does not factor what troops you send like farming. The second thing is that to loot the same number of resources takes the same amount of time from each option. Each of the above options I put takes 62 minutes and 43 seconds in W98. Whether this is factored by world speed or troop speed remains to be seen until there is a larger sample size of worlds.

Efficiency

The real question then is how should one be using this feature optimally. I made a graph to give an idea of how your resources hauled per hour increase when you put more troops into scavenging. The line on the bottom is LL, the line on the top is HH:

[​IMG] https://i.imgur.com/02i3kph.png?1

One thing of note is that all four options are logarithmic when it comes to gains. Essentially this means that their gains fall off the more troops you put into them. Past about 10k worth of loot capacity, it's probably not worth putting much more into the scavenging. I'd put CC and GG there too, but I'm a tad lazy atm, perhaps I'll edit it in later.

The next question to ask is, should I be putting all my eggs in one basket or not?

Lets say you have 500 light cavalry or 40000 total haul

GG would give you 30000 resources over 18 hours 37 mins (1611 res/h)

Splitting equally would give:

LL: 1000 over 1 hour 14 mins (810.81 res/h) HH: 2500 over 2 hours 20 mins (1071 res/h) CC: 5000 over 4 hours 1 min (1247 res/h) GG: 7500 over 5 hours 37 mins (1335 res/h)

So essentially:

1611 res/h vs. 4463 res/h

This holds pretty true across everything. It doesn't hold for very very low amounts like 10 spears, but lets be honest, 95% of people are past that point. I'm not sure of the exact split yet which is optimal, but splitting across all four types is the way to go.

Scavenging vs. Farming:

Now lets say you aren't a lazy shitter like me and actually do farming, should you be scavenging whilst farming? Which is better?

Lets use 500 lc as an example. Now I already know that I'm going to be getting 4463 res/h from scavenging. This will give me 107k resources over 24 hours. You'd need full hauls to arrive back to your village from 56 lc every hour to make it worth to farm. To put that as a comparison, if this was on the looter board yesterday, it would just be under the top 10. Furthermore, this is irrespective of troop speed, I can send 1600 spears, which would also do the job.

I'd not put 500 lc in there though, I'd put a smaller amount, depending on your area and how serious you were and then farm out your area with the rest. I haven't calculated it out though yet.

Sniping:

From my testing, scavenging comes back exactly on the second, so if could be used theoretically like barb bouncing, but I'd honestly stick to barb bouncing as I'm not sure how accurate it is or cancel sniping (because it's basically better)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=hatékonyság, nem tudom pontosan milyen szerver beállítás mellett (300 lándzsással)][url]https://orig00.deviantart.net/19c9/f/2018/020/f/a/splits_scavnage_2_by_da_reall-dc0nqau.png[/url][/spoiler]